Mon Mar 3 21:07:29 1997
- Message No. 449
From: Michael Dipper
Subject: Is the ATIC elitary ?
[warning: long posting, not @ related]
Hi Ralf,
At 08:22 03.03.97 +0100, you wrote:
perhaps you should try to catch some of the unwritten rules on the net
before posting anything around the world. Some of them are:
>> If anybody wants to continue this discussion, please use private mail,
>> because I think it is of no public interest for the 150 other readers !
>
>Of course it is of public interest!!
1. Read the rules of every newsgroup/mailinglist !
- This mailinglistsī intention is to provide technical information and help
to other AT riders. We have got about 200 readers. 100 of them come from
overseas and about 50 from very far away in Europe. All these 150 people
have NO chance to join a meeting in central europe and so it is of NO
interest for them.
Perhaps you have heard that some people have to pay a lot of money for
their internet account - they donīt wanīt to hear about some #atics in
italy or your opinion on me.
>I am slowly really getting annoyed about
>this elitary behaviour here on the List. Once you wrote it shouldn`t be to
>dogmatic all this "Club"-stuff. What is the problem about some riders
>bringing along some friends?
2. Read the FAQ !
In this case: Read the announcement page.
If you would have done this, you would see, that our italian friend, Beppe,
has done a really great job, if he offers his PRIVATE house for unknown
people from all over europe ! He does this out of idealism and so we have
to thank him and accept his rules. I canīt imagine what you would say, if I
would invite 150 people in your house !
Like I mentioned before, there are additional problems with the italian
laws: Bigger conventions need an official permit, fees, security guards
(red cross, etc.). Beppe will not break the law only because of YOUR
interests. I am sure you wonīt pay his fine !
>I donīt want to flame on it, but do we really need to sleep in a
>"stone house"?? I myself am on the list, and if anybody wants to have my
>place, Iīd be glad to sleep outside on my Termarest.
3. Before posting, read the FAQ for a second time.
Can you imagine 150 bikers using one toilet ? I hardly can do that with 50
bikers ! Yes, of course, you are a man and youīll use the bushes (me too!),
but what do you think will Beppe say about his littered, ugly smelling
garden ?
Additionally we donīt wanīt to be drunken for all the three days (if this
is your intention -> stay away). Have you ever organized common trips for
150 bikes (before answering: start your calculator: 150 * 20m security
distance .... 3km convoi, cool !) ?
>Come on, we are bikers not wimps!!
and civlized people, too - and so we try to talk !
>By the way, why are you so afraid of a big meeting. I mean, we are not
>talking about a thousend people. If it is fifty or hundred doesnīt really
>make a difference. And the more come, the more interesting it will be.!
It is no problem for YOU. Youīll leave on Sunday. But as mentioned ago,
some team spirit is required ! Do you think, Beppe wantīs to renovate his
"castle" for a second time ?
>There once was a AT-meeting here in Germany and that was open for everybody:
>Fifty Guys came along, and it really was a fun time. AT-Drivers are usually
>absolutely uncomplicated and flexible - so donīt be ridiculous and make it
>to "YOUR-PERSONAL"-meeting. NO DOGMA. PEACE!
What do you think about planning such a event on YOUR own ?
Rent a campground in your hometown and you can invite as many people as you
wanīt. But donīt force other people, whom they have to invite in their own
house.
4. NEVER post private mails to offcial resources !
>Also first I thought, we gotta continue writing english, don't we?
Of course, but Juergen wonīt write in english to you and me ...
5. Proove your statements !
>meeting itself. But as you are now mentioning it: Some of the stuff posted
>via this list is indeed pretty strange and sounds espacialy very aggressiv
>if anybody is not of Dippers opinion.
Pretty strange postings are quite normal. If everybody would be clear,
we wouldnīt have anything to discuss about. Furthermore I would encourage
you to give some examples for my so called aggressive opinion ?
As you might have realized, I try to steer the discussion on this list. I
am not perfect and my english isnīt either, but: This list is mainly for
technical topics. If you wanīt to have daily gossip about biking in general
you better go to "de.alt.fan.rrr" (this is NOTHING against this special
newsgroup). And it is not the "xrv-meeting-list".
By the way, you may call me "Micha".
6. Keep argues private !
>Don't get me wrong, but critizism is absolutely the essential of all
>Internet-discussions and Posting-list argumentations.
In a good and fair discussion everybody can present his arguments. I am
very disappointed about you posting your offending words to the whole
mailinglist.
Why werenīt you man enough to send your opinions private to me ?
Do you need the publicity ? Do you like splitting newsgroups or
mailinglists by starting off-topic discussions ?
----
Finally, I wanīt to excuse for this posting which is definitly of no
interest for most of you, but this was my last public one to this topic.
Please understand me in not accepting everything quitely.
I encourage you again, to discuss such themes via PRIVATE mail !!!
I am looking forward very happily to the meeting in Tuscany and I hope
weīll have the same cooperate spirit like at the last meetings. I am always
open for suggestions and if anyone has ideas for a 4th meeting this year,
we can think about doing it on a public place without any limitations.
I wanīt to excuse again for the misunderstandings with the
participant-numbers on the reservation page. I just ordered the list new to
get people travelling together in neighbour positions. No one lost anything
of his "rights" due to this changes.
Bye, --- Micha ---
--
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| Michael Dipper, |
| Mozartstrasse 25 |
| D-71640 Ludwigsburg Phone: +49-171-5324829 |
| Mail: dipper@isd.uni-stuttgart.de |
| Web: http://www-normans.isd.uni-stuttgart.de/~dipper/ |
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